Pieta Brown is a songwriter based in Iowa City; Mike Lewis is a saxophonist, bassist, and producer who plays in Bon Iver; Sean Carey is a multi-instrumentalist and producer who records solo as S. Carey and also plays in Bon Iver. Mike and Sean co-produced Pieta’s new record Dreamin’ Of, which will be out tomorrow via Righteous Babe. To celebrate the release, the three got on Zoom to chat about the making of it, and more.
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music
Pieta Brown: I just got back from New York City late last night and it was really fun.
Mike Lewis: I love that you were there for the Knicks.
Pieta: The Knicks! I'm still kind of intoxicated from it…
Sean Carey: I thought I saw you courtside.
Pieta: [Laughs.] Yep, that was me!
Mike: Something you haven't told us about how well the record's doing? [Laughs.]
Pieta: [Laughs.]
So, how do I know you guys? Working with you on Freeway, I feel like, was the first time we all started [collaborating].
Mike: It definitely feels like the beginning of the, quote-unquote, “working” relationship. I can't really remember a time that I didn't know you…
Sean: I think [we met in] Australia.
Pieta: I think so. For some reason, the time warp of that is sort of vivid, because I really remember walking with JT [Bates]—
Mike: And Mikey Rossetto, right?
Pieta: Yeah. That was a really great fun trip. But I just remember walking into some little cafe and JT kept telling me about how you were going to be there. I remember meeting you and — I mean, maybe we had caught a flash of each other before that. And I really remember, of course, the show, which was beautiful, and then seeing you guys afterwards for a little bit. That was also when I met Justin [Vernon], and I remember walking across Melbourne talking to Justin about all kinds of stuff. I think if that hadn't happened, I don't know if any of the rest of it would. Just something about all those little portals opening.
Mike: Yeah. I remember talking to JT before you guys left because we knew we were going to be over there at the same time, but we kept comparing schedules and it wasn't lining up. It was like, “Well, alright, this is going to be stupid. We're literally going to be roughly in the same place halfway across the world and not see each other.” Then I don't remember if something changed or if I was reading something wrong, but suddenly we were in the same place. “Yeah, let's hang out in Melbourne.”
Pieta: It was so fun. The other thing I remember next was that then, when I was trying to record Freeway, I had reached out to you around that time, Mike. I was ready to try recording and I was like, “I don't think JT can do it then, but I really can't wait anymore.” And you were like, “What about Sean?” And the crazy thing was that a couple months before, when I was thinking about who to try to record with — maybe I didn't tell you this story, Sean — I'd written your name down on a little piece of paper in one of my weird notebooks. I sketch out little ideas, and I’d just written “Sean Carey.” Because I think there was some time in that year before where I had done something with Mason Jennings [who Sean has collaborated with]… Anyways, Mike said, “Why don't I see if Sean could do it then?”
Mike: I definitely remember that, because you were like, “God, that's so weird, I was thinking about Sean…” Then I remember I got off the phone with you and I was somehow miraculously able to reach everybody inside of about 15 minutes. I called you back like, “OK, we're all set up! Ready to go.”
Sean: How stuff never works.
Mike: Yeah, exactly. Only for Pieta records.
Pieta: That was wild. And then I didn't see you guys very much for a while. Then all the other worldwide crazy things happened, like a pandemic and all that kind of stuff.
Mike: A little forced hiatus.
Pieta: Exactly. [Laughs.] Can I have another one of those?
Mike: I'm ready.
Pieta: And then, of course, for this album, I really vividly remember coming up to the rehearsal for that benefit that you invited me to do, Mike.
Mike: Right, for the North House thing.
Pieta: In your basement. That really was the seed for me. That was such a spark. I just remember sitting in there watching you guys and playing music and I was like, I want to record like this. That stuck in my head. Not that long after that, Brett [Bullion] had been reaching out to me like, “I really want to record with you. Let me bring a remote rig and let's do it like that…” And then when I had those songs, all of a sudden I'd been talking to Sean for, like, two years, being like, “Sean, I need you to help me. Can you please help me do this?”
Sean: And I was like, “Who’s this?”[Laughs.] Just kidding.
Pieta: [Laughs.] And, yeah, like a domino thing, somehow it all suddenly came together. But also, knowing that we might talk about this, I’ve been thinking about that song “Dreamin’ Of,” because that really was such a seed for me too. I'd had a lot of these other songs in the wings, and I remember really feeling like Sean would be able to help me push some of this stuff in a different zone. And then that song came in and I was like, “OK, I gotta do this.” I think that's the first one we tried when I came up there, because I had just written that song.
It was a 12 hour drive for me — you guys probably don't know this part, but there was all kinds of wild stuff going on, and I drove up there, and then we just started recording. I think I started with the Tele on “Dreamin’ Of.” I remember doing that when we started recording there with Brett — Brett showed up before I did, right?
Sean: Yeah, I remember Brett showed up the day before, and we started trying to turn my basement — which is surprisingly good sounding — into something that could actually hold a recording session. And I just remember looking around feeling like, Yeah, man, there's a lot of space in here. It sounds great. This is going to be easy. And then in about 10 minutes of getting Brett’s stuff down here, and then when you guys showed up the next day, you could barely walk down here. It was so much stuff.
Pieta: When I look at the photos now, I can't believe that.
Mike: Those are fun photos. Because, was it February? Everyone's in coats and hats.
Pieta: That's what I mean, I drove from Iowa in the dark… But I was pretty obsessed with the idea of it being in a remote place. I wanted to feel like nature was right there. That's not unlike April Base [Justin Vernon’s studio], which is one of the reasons I love that place so much. You just feel like you're not really separate from right outside. And your basement has that feeling too.
And you guys put up with me for — I think it was just three days, wasn't it?
Sean: Yeah, three or four.
Pieta: Yeah. And then I left super elated. I was like, Oh, yeah, we definitely got stuff. Maybe we got over half the record. And then by the time I got home… It's never a good idea to have all that time to drive away from a session. [Laughs.]
Sean: I think next session, you gotta be in a remote spot, but you need a private helicopter right outta there.
Mike: An extraction. We won't even tell you when it's coming. It'll be safe, but it'll just like, “OK, Pieta, we need outside in five minutes.”
Pieta: Yeah, exactly.
Sean: “We'll send you the bounces in about six months.”
Pieta: I remember by the time I got home, I was like, Yeah, I don't know, maybe not… I just wasn't sure after that, and I let it drift. You guys were all checking in. We tried to make another session and stuff didn't line up. I was like, “Maybe we'll just try again some other time.” And I remember being totally disoriented because I was trying to fund it all myself. But then I remember, I'm pretty sure it was summer, Sean sent me that production demo that you had done of “Dreamin’ Of,” and you were like, “I don't know, Pieta, I really think you should listen to this. I think we got some stuff in there.”
Sean: [Laughs.] “You should listen to me, Pieta…”
Pieta: And then I listened to it and I got so excited. Then I started really harassing you guys again after that, relentlessly for many months ‘til we got it.
I just will say thank you again for the moment of time. You guys probably have done that more than I have, worked in a triangle production team, three people being producers. You guys really did that with me, and I'm still really grateful for that.
Mike: Yeah. The answer to that is either never or always. More often than not, my favorite sessions are almost always ones where it feels like everybody's comfortable to say anything. And then sometimes certain people have stronger feelings than other ones and pull the group in a direction. That always feels, at least to me, the most natural, even if it gets complicated and it creates kind of stormy seas sometimes.
Pieta: I really loved that about working on this record with you guys because I felt like you didn't hold back. For me too, I think I just felt really… “trusting,” I guess is the word. So thank you for that feeling. I really love for things to be so open and unknown, just to let the things that you're not thinking you're going to do happen. I felt like there was some great moments of that on this recording.
Mike: Tons.
Pieta: I have so many really fun memories of my way of free forming and watching you guys deal with that. [Laughs.] “How does this go, Pieta?”... You know, just that kind of live recording and letting the songs land with you guys — that's pretty much what happened on all of it.
Mike: I have to say, after after a couple of records made with you, I think one artifact that's unique is — more often than not, when you go into a session, the songs are very set, and oftentimes different songwriters go the way they go and the math is specific. But I think that there's a lot more ebb and flow to [your way of working]. You have words and a narrative that come out, and if certain things change in the song along the way, you don't lose the narrative. But it also creates a situation when you're playing them where they're just unknowable enough from a musical standpoint that you never stop listening. The more you get to know how something goes, the more you make a plan for how you're going to play it, you know? And there's something special about not being entirely certain so you have to stay on your toes. I think that creates really interesting takes and really interesting energy in different tracks.
Sean: Yeah, absolutely. You can hear that on both records, these little quirky nuances…
Mike: I listened to the record a bunch today, just to come back to it and have it at the forefront of my mind for talking about it.
Pieta: How does it hit you now, Mike?
Mike: It was really exciting on the first listen through. And then I accidentally found myself listening to it a couple more times. I really like the length of the record. I enjoy the fact that it's not over-long in any way. It lends itself to going back. I really like what we walked away with on this. I found myself feeling really comfortable in it as a listener, you know, and not obsessing over what happened — not having too many hyper specific memories of, Oh, I wish I would have nailed that lick, or any of that dumb stuff that sometimes happens when you listen back to things you've recorded. It doesn't have any of that for me, which is really nice.
Pieta: Yeah. I mean, I didn't listen to it for quite a while, and then have listened again lately as I've been having to send different parts around. But it still just feels like one big thing, totally. Which, of course, I think Brett was also a really big part of that.
Sean: That guy's a wizard.
Pieta: He's a wizard. But you guys are wizards too. And then Zach [Hansen] too. I love working with him. He's such a fun engineer to record and mix with.
I always have these sonic ideas, things that I'm hearing but I don't really know how to get from my inner dream world to actualizing that. And I felt like you guys did so much of that. Like “Dreamin’ Of” — I was humming that part, and then later on when Sean sent me the production demo, I was like, Wow, that thing that I was humming and imagining, he just turned it into a sound. It was amazing. I felt like that for me was a departure on this record, just being able to tell you guys some of those ideas and then how much you guys helped me actually do them, and then grow them beyond that. Amazingness.
Mike: It was fun. I look forward to doing it again. It's a lot, and it's always rewarding… Well, I love you guys.
Pieta: I love you guys more.
Sean: I love you guys the most.
Mike: Oh, you're full of shit, Sean.
Sean: [Laughs.] I’m super excited about the record. Very proud and and happy. Congratulations, Pieta.
Pieta: Congratulations to you guys. I feel like it's just as much you guys as it is me, so thank you.
Sean: Alright, well, I'll take 50% then. Thanks.
Pieta: [Laughs.] You got it.
