Nathan Phillips is an experimental pianist and songwriter who performs as Big Bend. His latest record, Last Circle in a Slowdown, is out now on Shimmy-Disc.
Nathan Phillips is an experimental pianist and songwriter who performs as Big Bend; Shahzad Ismaily is a musician, composer, recording engineer, and owner of the Brooklyn recording studio Figure 8. Shahzad co-produced the new Big Bend record, Last Circle in a Slowdown, which was just released last month on Shimmy-Disc. To celebrate, the collaborators and friends got on the phone to catch up about it, and more.
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music
Nathan Phillips: Where are you heading?
Shahzad Ismaily: I just landed in from Nashville, where I played a show last night with Marc Ribot.
Nathan: Oh, amazing.
Shahzad: Now I’m headed back home. I have a day off today, and I kind of insanely decided to come home and spend some time with my mom and with the kid.
Nathan: Excellent. Well, I miss you. It must have been a few months or so since I’ve seen you.
Shahzad: I know, it’s been a long time. I miss you, too.
Nathan: I’m excited to get to chat with you. I have a lot of questions.
Shahzad: Ready!
Nathan: Well, first of all, how was Ireland?
Shahzad: Ireland was amazing. I was over there recording and co-producing — there was a main producer, and the band was of course self-producing, and I was sort of an additional voice in the room, with this band called Ye Vagabonds. We were about a half hour or so east of Galway in the countryside. I’d never been to Galway before — incredibly beautiful town. I only got to see it very briefly, but what was cool was when I landed, they said they had sorted someone named Brigid to come and pick me up, and I assumed — rather rudely — that she was not a musician, just sort of some driver who was picking up and shuttling me from one place to another. And then it turned out it was Brigid Mae Power, an astonishingly great singer. So she picked me up from the airport, and we got to have a really nice drive and conversation. That was a nice entrance into that time in Ireland. I recorded with these folks and had a really good time of it. And then surprisingly, on the last day of the recording, Bonnie Prince Billy was playing Galway, and I was texting with him and asked if I could sit in, and he very kindly said yes. So that was my last night in Ireland, playing a show, and then I left at 6 AM.
Nathan: That’s amazing. I love Brigid’s music so much.
Shahzad: I’d never heard her music — and I know that she’s really well-regarded. When I was there in Ireland, she sent me a couple of recordings that she was working on, and she’s so good.
Nathan: That’s so awesome. I almost did some recording with her, but it ended up not working out scheduling-wise. She was really curious about your studio [Figure 8, in Brooklyn] as well. What’s going on at the studio these days? Any fun projects?
Shahzad: There’s always good stuff going on there. This weekend, this incredible Indonesian singer is going to hole up in there to work on finishing some tracks of hers.
Nathan: Amazing. I have so many fond memories of being there, especially during the pandemic. There’s not a ton of places you can go in such a noisy city. It really feels serene and calm; it’s a wonderful space. Maybe you can’t talk about this — I don’t know if you signed an NDA or anything — but Bob Dylan, a few years back, you performed in some kind of live in-studio performance with him. I never got to ask you about it, but I’ve always been curious.
Shahzad: So, here’s what happened: A friend of mine named Alex Summers was tasked with putting together a band for a live concert film that Bob Dylan had decided to do during COVID — because, I didn’t really understand this, but Bob Dylan is an insane workaholic when it comes to touring. I think he’s toured something like over 100 shows a year since the ‘60s. So COVID must have been a very weird experience where suddenly he couldn’t tour. And all these people were doing streaming films and live concert films, so probably someone had suggested to him he could do something like that. Bob Dylan being Bob Dylan, I think he probably thought of a more perverse, unusual form, and so he decided to film himself playing some songs in a cafe that he bought in Santa Monica 40 years ago. So I’m flown over, and we’re in this juke joint — this back area of the cafe made to look like some ‘50s rhythm and blues performance space — checkered floors, tables, extras. And then, unfortunately for me, because I love playing music, we didn’t end up playing live or playing at all. We were just pretending to play while they were pumping in the tracks from the record.
Nathan: No way!
Shahzad: Yeah. And it’s crazy because there were heavy musicians on stage. Joshua Crumbly is an incredible bass player; Janie Cowan, also an amazing bass player; and Alex Burke is really excellent keyboardist. And then Bob Dylan would stand right among us, and they would be rolling film and doing these takes with the playback coming out through these monitors. It’s pretty bizarre. I guess Bob Dylan must be really good at lip syncing. I’ve never actually seen the film myself, but I can’t imagine it comes off as anything but some insane Milli Vanilli something or other. But then once in a while, I’ll run into people in the world and they seem to have liked it.
Also, it’s funny you ask that question just now, because two days ago, the Bob Dylan Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma invited Marc Ribot down to do a live performance in Leon Russell’s recording studio called The Church, and we got to tour the Bob Dylan Museum. I took a couple pictures for a friend of this special notebook called The Blood on the Tracks notebook, which contains all the lyrics and all the writing he was doing for that record.
Nathan: Amazing. Well, I have a lot of fond memories of recording Last Circle in a Slowdown with you. I remember us getting into an editing or mixing session together, and I think that I was at the console with you, and it was so lovely that your mom was down to hang out with us. I remember you’d sort of have headphones on and I’d be talking with your mom, and occasionally you’d take off the headphones and be like, “Mom, don’t talk Nathan’s ear off now.” In the best way possible, it reminded me so much of being a kid at my friend’s house, and my friend’s like, “Mom, don’t—!” [Laughs.]
Shahzad: I know, it’s so funny. I have to say, it’s so generous of you to have let my mom be with us on those sessions, because I live a really complex life where I have to balance taking care of the kid, taking care of my mom, working, and whenever I can collapse any of it together, it’s a really healthy life for me. I really, really appreciate it a lot. And I know that for my mom, it’s really meaningful when she can be nearby, or nearby something I’m doing, so that’s good for her. So I’m really grateful for that.
Nathan: That’s lovely. That’s one of the nice things, of many nice things, about the experiences I’ve had getting to record at your studio: There’s a real openness to bring whoever happens to be around. Maybe they’re just walking by the studio, or they’re just popping in to grab a guitar pedal, but just this invitation to be a part of whatever the project is, and this sharing. I think that’s how I initially met Zosha [Warpeha] — I think she was she was helping at the studio in some capacity, and you asked if she wanted wanted to run home and grab her violins with the horn attached. Do you remember that?
Shahzad: Oh, right. It was a Stroh violin.
Nathan: Exactly, yeah. And then I think you ran it through a lot of different effects and processing. I think that was for the Radish album. But anyways, that kind of willingness to engage with whatever is in your periphery at the moment, I admire that and really enjoyed that aspect of getting to record with you.
Shahzad: Again, I’m so grateful to you for your openness, because I do feel like intuitively, it’s a very healthy way to live — to be open to chaos and happenstance and spontaneity and coincidence. And so I do really like it when at the studio, unusual things will take place because of the openness of all of us who are there. So, for example, inviting a stranger walking by the studio that we meet on lunch break while we’re sitting in front — if they feel like they have a good temperament, I might invite them in just to listen as we’re playing. And then something comes from those moments.
It’s wild that Zosha was interning at the studio. When you’re an engineer working there — or in my case, the owner-engineer working there — and you’re crossing paths with an intern, sometimes you have time to make conversation and sometimes you don’t really get to know them particularly well. And then you see them later on out in the world, out and about doing their thing, and it’s amazing who all these people are. They’re all incredible. Like, Zosha’s playing is absurdly beautiful and she’s making these great solo records. It’s wild that was the person that I was around a couple of years ago.
Nathan: She’s such a wonderful player. So, what’s on the horizon for you this fall? Is there anything you’re especially excited for?
Shahzad: Well, my life is quite fortunate in that if I think about something I’d like to do, I can do it; I can reach out to someone or create something. And so in that way, I have space in the fall to to do some of that if I want to, if it feels right. Also, I have a really strong desire to do inner work this year, and I don’t know what the steps are for that. I imagine meditating is one of them. I imagine reading and journaling are other ways. And then in terms of music, I’ve always got a lot of really compelling things going on. I’m very, very lucky. In the fall, in November, Sam Smith, this really wonderful British singer, is going to be doing some writing in the studio with Feist, and also on their own and with other writers that they’ve worked with over the years. I’ll probably be a part of that in some way, maybe playing an instrument here or there, and I’m looking forward to that a lot.
Nathan: That’s really exciting. Dust played me one of the pieces from the TRAИƧA album that was Beverly Glenn-Copeland with Sam Smith, and it was a very, very touching, very beautiful rendition of one of his earlier songs.
Shahzad: So good. That’s beautiful.
Nathan: That will be great. I’m excited to hear that. When I was thinking about sonic landscapes and all the different instruments you play, I was listening to a couple of songs of yours in particular that you’ve worked on, and one of them — I just wanted to point it out, because it’s one of my favorite pieces of all time, called “Three Suitcases.” Do you remember this? It’s from 2009.
Shahzad: No, I don’t at all.
Nathan: [Laughs.] It’s from the album called Causing a Tiger, with Carla Kihlstedt.
Shahzad: Oh, yeah! That’s so sweet that you like those recordings. It was really fun to make that record.
Nathan: That song just has this raucous energy with the drums and with this viola — I believe it’s viola — and the singing that kind of weaves in and out of that is so nice. I would listen to that so many times. I was very drawn to it.
Shahzad: That really means a lot.
Nathan: The other one I wanted to mention was a song called “(N)o(t)ver,” which is you, Merz, and Laraaji. Just the way that chord structure is, the electric guitar and the upright bass together, is so nice.
Shahzad: Yeah, those tracks on that record are so special.
Nathan: I love it so much. I know a while back, there was talk of — did Laraaji ask you to come record in a cave? Am I making that up?
Shahzad: No, he didn’t. But I’m really excited to try to study a bit with him. Mostly the interactions I’ve had with Laraaji have been just momentary interactions in the studio. The first time I ever met him was because of you — because I think you brought him in to record on a session of yours.
Nathan: Yeah.
Shahzad: And then I was working on the Lonnie Holley record, and he was brought in to play again on that record.
Nathan: That’s incredible. I think I may have come in to hang out a little bit when y’all were recording Lonnie’s album just before the latest one. I believe it was in a bit of a mixing phase, and I think you and Phil [Weinrobe] were at the console, and I think it was this piece of Lonnie’s that had some really attacking brass sounds, some trombones and it was stunning. It’s cool to see you in mixing mode.
Shahzad: Yeah, it was really fun. I vaguely remember that, too. It’s probably one of those great things we’re talking about, the happenstance of things where you were around and then I just said, “Hey, come over and sit on the couch and listen.” I was always happy to share those experiences with you.
Nathan: I’m very inspired by your openness and willingness to work with people in all different walks of life and stages of projects that they’re working on. I feel like there’s a very deep willingness to meet people where they’re at and try to see what you can co-create with them. I felt that for sure. I never felt like you had any kind of super protective or secretive sense about you, in terms of how you approach playing music. I sense that you have a lot of built in trust with people and are open to whatever the experience may be. And I like that.
Shahzad: Thank you for sharing that, Nathan. I really feel the same with you. Energetically, you’re a fucking amazing person. For me, I’m trying really hard to move towards having some kind of a solo record. And still my favorite tracks are the ones that you produce — you’re a really excellent producer. I still viscerally remember how much I liked this one track — one was conga going through the mic of a 12-string guitar that was going through some delay or something. When I came in, I just felt like, This is the way I want this record to feel emotionally and aesthetically. You’re so good at producing.
Nathan: That’s so awesome. I do think producing is a strong word — I think that I was truly just sitting in the control room and being excited. It’s so exciting to get to witness you do your thing in the moment and create something spontaneously. The world needs it. And they need the Shahzad solo album. [Laughs.] I’m so excited for whatever step you make in that direction.
Shahzad: Thank you. You know, as we’re talking about that, when you use the phrase “the world needs it” — it’s interesting, because I think some people make records because they’re called to do it, and expressing themselves is really meaningful. I don’t quite feel that way. I was trying to answer a friend about whether I should make a solo record or not, and how to do it, and she was saying, “You know, what I hear from you — I don’t hear that you want to do it.” That stayed with me. I mean, on one level, she is right: There’s so much reticence and discomfort and fear and difficulty that I don’t actually want to do it. But then, now, I might have the first answer to that conversation, which is you say the world needs it. And I think about that in a humble way — like I’m not sitting here thinking, Nathan is so right. The world needs this, and I’m the one to give it. But what I thought about was: I saw some typical inspirational Instagram post, and it was about the strength of staying with something under duress. And what it was was a woman who saved a particular patch of Redwood forest by going up to the top of a tree and living in it for two years. It really took two years before the logging company gave up, and they I’m sure they did all sorts of dastardly stuff to try and get her down. Friends were supporting her and sending food up, and she straight up lived up there for a couple of years. And what’s beautiful is this idea that maybe the mechanism behind me making a solo record doesn’t have to do with pleasure; it has something to do with doing something that is in some way a gift to the world. And again, I’m not saying that I think it’s a gift because it’s awesome or the world needs it. But it’s something like where the actual experience you’re having in making it is not necessarily pleasant, but it’s important in some way.
Nathan: I love that. I think that makes so much sense. It’s possible to give something or make something that is a pain in the ass and not pleasurable that is meaningful. I can’t imagine it would be fun to live in a tree for two years.
Shahzad: Exactly. It must be abominably challenging. There are probably moments where it’s inspiring and you wake up and there’s some sunrise and it’s magical. But then there’s all the other moments — storms, difficulty with food, with using the bathroom, loneliness.
Nathan: Bird activity.
Shahzad: Yeah.
Nathan: Well, Shahzad, thank you so much for chatting with me. I miss you and I can’t wait to see you.
Shahzad: Nathan, you are a fucking astoundingly wonderful person.
Nathan: I love you so much, Shahzad. Have a wonderful day.
Shahzad: You too, Nathan. Take good care of yourself.
