Lava La Rue and Katy J Pearson Feel Spoiled

Lava La Rue is a musician and director from West London; Katy J Pearson is a singer-songwriter based in Bristol. The two friends each have new records — Lava’s STARFACE came out over the summer on Dirty Hit, and Katy’s Someday, Now will be out this Friday on Heavenly — so to celebrate, they caught up about it all over Zoom (Zoom-ing in from different floors of the same building).
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music

Lava La Rue: Hello, Katy. So close, yet so far.

Katy J Pearson: [Laughs.] I know.

Lava: Have we told them that we’re in the same building right now?

Katy: Yeah, we are in the same building. We thought it’d be fun to meet up before. But how’s everything been? I haven’t seen you since Glastonbury.

Lava: Yeah, that was the last time we hung out. But it was nice because, actually, the first time I ever laid eyes on you was at Glasto in 2022. It was at the Crow’s Nest — and I feel like that is a staple point of everybody in our musical community. We all end up at that specific part of Glastonbury. It’s quite special coming back and seeing those same faces a couple of years later.

Katy: It is so true. I feel like even this year, we all gathered for Daisy and Danny’s [from Heavenly Records] Heavenly Jukebox. 

Lava: Yeah, it was really special. It felt like a big sort of, everyone coming together and celebrating everyone else’s music. It’s in those moments when you’re in that tent and you’re just surrounded by, not just amazing musicians, but amazing friends — you could walk in there and be like, It’s intimidating because it’s that person and that person and that person, but actually everyone is so wholesome and just celebrating life together. And in those moments you’re like, Oh, this is what life’s about.

Katy: It’s actually so true. I really feel at the moment that the music industry and the community that I’m in feels like a really positive place. I think the gang that we have and the people we know, there’s a really good, safe space of friends and creatives that we can all rely on. Whereas when I started in music, I felt isolated and didn’t really have a close-knit group of friends that I could rely on that also made music. And now I feel very spoiled.

Lava: Yeah, absolutely. There’s something to be said about being an independent artist and having to build your own creative community around you. That’s our currency, just being able to make and rely on these friendships. I’ve met some people where when they started out, maybe they were initially signed to a major, or just came in as a lone wolf, or weren’t from the city so they didn’t know anyone, and it could be so lonely if you don’t have that connection. 

Katy: Oh, my god, I can so relate to that. When I was 19 and first signed, I was still living in the countryside and I didn’t have any peers or any friends that I could talk to. And that’s why — I mean, it went tits up for many reasons, but not having people to sound things upon… I feel like we’ve met up on countless occasions, just hanging out with our friends, and we’ve always had an opportunity to chat things through that might be going on with us. We’re always there to give each other advice, which is so useful. It’s so vital to be able to have a sounding board.

Lava: Absolutely. And I think the thing with being in any creative industry, but music more than ever, is there is no one way of how things are achieved. But because of that, it’s really hard to have a measure of, Is this normal? Is this not normal? 

Katy: Yeah. 

Lava: Especially for me when I was starting out, trying to have a navigation of what was a level of professionality that I was supposed to expect with producers that I’d be put in rooms with as a teenager. Or the way that people in the industry would talk to me, or talk about other people, I’m like, Is this normal? Is this not normal? Is it OK to talk that way? Because I think in music there are a lot of characters where you can get away with being sort of larger-than-life and blasé. But at the same time, it means that sometimes people cross the line. And so when you have friends in music, you can be like, “Was that crossing a boundary?” And they’re like, “Yeah, man, that was not cool and you’re in every right to complain to this person about that.” Do you know what I mean? 

Katy: Oh, yeah, definitely. I think we both started out in music very young, and I can remember me at 18 on my own, going into a writer’s house and the studio is their bedroom. You sit on the bed and you sing the songs and there’s no chaperone.

Lava: No, exactly.

Katy: And [the label’s A&R] have never even met these people. It’s just like, “Go to this session, it’s at this address.” There’s no vetting. I remember going on a lunch with one of them, and him just telling me how lonely he was and how he was single and stuff. I was like, Is this the normal work etiquette? It’s actually batshit.

Lava: It is really crazy. I know that there are unions for musicians, but it’s not applied globally. There should be a standard. It actually takes me back — before I was doing music, I was signed to a modeling agency, and it’s very similar the way that I would be sent to do test shoots at random men’s houses. My agent has never met him, she’s just seen his credentials. It’s the same in music. You’ve never met this producer before, they’ve just popped up on an email, you actually don’t know if this person’s safety is at risk. I think there should be more of a protection of [artists] and a standard. [It should be] maybe flagged if this person’s set up is a bit more informal, and who’s going to be there.

Katy: I went to the doctor today, and you know when if there’s a male doctor, they’re, like, “Do you want [someone else in the room with you]?” I genuinely think if you’re going if you’re going to a session for the first time with someone to write, especially as a woman, someone should be there to assess the situation. 

Lava: Yeah, I think it should be that. I know it’s really hard for A&Rs when they’re going in meetings, and they’re not actually in studio sessions with these producers so they themselves can’t actually know what these producers are like. When you’ve spent five hours [with them], and then after a long session they’re like, “Hey, do you want to come to the pub afterwards?” It’s so hard, it’s so nuanced to say where is the line. I always say this to my producer mates, that they are somewhere between an artist and an industry person, because they deal with the label in a different way than the artist does. So there is that slightly more direct conversation, yet they do want to be cool and artsy with you. There should be some little guidelines or some vetting on the A&R side before you put a potentially vulnerable person in there, to just really know what’s up. I think that some A&R do really care — and I think definitely some need to put a bit more work in.

Katy: Yeah, absolutely. But your new debut album’s out, and it’s amazing. How do you feel about it all? I know we talked about it a lot, coming up to it being released. But how do you feel now?

Lava: Very good question. I just was so stoked to put a body of music out. Obviously I’ve been floating Lava La Rue as a project since I was a teenager, but it’s been so important for me to actually put a proper album out, because it is a different conversation. And now that I’ve done it, honestly, I’m so excited for the next thing. I’m so ready for album two.

Katy: Oh, my god, yeah. I so relate to that. It’s the most freeing thing ever. I remember when my debut album came out — mine came out in lockdown, so my housemates gave me a party, and they did a really cute montage of everyone being like, “Well done!” I was sobbing. And then everyone went to bed and I just sat on my doorstep, listened to the album through with a gin and tonic, and was like, “Cool.” Then I went to bed and the next morning, it came out and it was just such a weird feeling. It felt like such a relief and a release of hard work. That’s the thing: it’s a body of work that you’ve been sitting on for such a long time, and when you get to release it, it’s like, bam. You feel like you’ve started your journey. And I mean, we’re at a studio and I’m already starting my fourth record, and I haven’t even released my third. [Laughs.] I just keep making stuff.

Lava: It’s important. I think it’s better to be excited and constantly wanting to be a vessel of creating than to put something out and be like, OK, I feel so uninspired and I don’t know what to do next. It’s a good problem to have, to just be on to the next thing. And there’s something to be said about, as an artist, having the balance of when you release something, recognizing that your audience is taking that in for the first time. So if you’re too over it, you’re not able to reciprocate that excitement that they have. And so for me, with my current debut album, yeah, there’s a lot of songs on there that I’d been working on for years. There’s some songs on there I literally wrote four or five years ago, so I’ve heard them over and over and over. But when someone hears it for the first time, I have to remember how it sounded to me when I heard it and be like, You know what? Yeah, I’m really proud of this. So there is that balance.

Katy: You’re so right. I was joking to Huw [Evans], who played on the record, “Yeah, I’m fucking over it already!” And he was like, “Oh, my god, you need to chill out.” That’s the thing: no one’s heard the rest of the songs. And the most recent record I’ve made was such a joy to make. I think it’s very easy to convince yourself that you’re over it because it’s the done thing, but actually giving yourself a break to enjoy it… I don’t think artists give themselves enough time to relish the moment. I think we can be very strict on ourselves, how long we’re allowed to be happy about it. I think I gave myself, like, a week and then I was freaking out. But I really do think it’s important. I mean, it’s hard to try and disassociate from yourself as an artist and a writer and listen to your music without it being you. But if you can try and think how other people are taking it, that’s quite fun.

Lava: Absolutely. And I genuinely mean this: you are one of the best songwriters I know. It’s great that you’re on to the next thing because you make really good songs. When I first started the proper STARFACE camp, me and my producers were all sharing what we were listening to and maybe some songs to use as a starting point, and “Alligator” was one of those songs. It was a reference song. 

Katy: Oh, my god!

Lava: Seriously. I think people probably would see us as part of two very different worlds and very different artists coming from very different places — I’m very much an inner city London kid, and you’re from Stroud originally, right? 

Katy: Yeah. So, the sticks. 

Lava: Yeah, literally the sticks. And I think people would probably associate me with a very different subgenre or subculture than maybe the more folky world that you’re associated with. But actually, our lives and our music are so intertwined. It’s actually mad to think about all of our connects, and the stories and moments that we have. Even the current building that we’re both in right now — I made most of my album here, and you’re currently working on your project here. And you moved into the flat that my partner moved out of before she moved in with me. And our mad, random Coachella experience, of us all sharing one room, just us three in a bed, basically. 

Katy: I would not have survived Coachella if you guys hadn’t been there. I think I would have literally freaked out. I’m glad we had each other because I still feel like it was a blur. I have this really funny memory where I turned to you and I was like, “I think I’m finally starting to enjoy myself.” And Calvin Harris was about to come on, and I went to the bar and I was like, “Hello, can I have four pints of lager, please?” And they were like, “The bar’s closed.” I was like, What the fuck? It’s 10:30. So we just went home, I think. Didn’t we?

Lava: Yeah, we did. American festival etiquette is very different to, like, 3 AM at Glasto and being like “Pints, pints, pints, pints!” So it was nice that we had each other, being in such a foreign festival world. But it was magical. 

Katy: It is so different. I find it quite overwhelming. I was feeling pretty anxious, so it was so nice to have friends there and that we could kind of laugh about how insane it is together. Because Coachella is one of those things where as a young person, you’re like, Woah, that place is out of reach. And to be there, it’s obviously insane. 

Lava: Yeah. Coachella for me represents everything that is different between American culture and British culture. It’s so in-your-face different, just how people approach the festival, the way it is, the way people dress. It is mad because it’s really exciting, but you do feel so far from home there. Like even the environment — I may as well be in Mars, or Australia. [Laughs.] 

Katy: It truly does feel like that. I just got back from Green Man, which is my favorite festival ever, and I think about the way everyone is at Green Man — everyone’s just rolling around being absolute demons, everyone’s being crazy.

Lava: Just covered in mud.

Katy: Covered in mud and wearing the same outfit for the whole weekend. When I was 16, 17, I would overpack so much. But I really got into realizing that you can just wear the same things for the whole weekend, and just switch it up a little bit.

Lava: Yeah. The major difference, I think, between British festival culture and American festival culture is I think in British festival culture, everybody agrees to not be perceived or not perceive each other, and we all just become this giant homogenous unit. Everyone is getting messed up together and it’s sort of like, “What happens in Glasto stays in Glasto,” or whatever. Everyone’s off their faces, everyone’s messed up, but we all look after each other. It’s like your excuse to be able to act like toddlers and get ugly as possible. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. 

But Coachella is very much about being perceived. People bring out these big, amazing looks, they bring out amazing stage production, and it’s beautiful in itself. I definitely am not putting it down. It’s just a very different culture of what you’re trying to bring to the table, and how you’re going with your friends, and you get all dressed up. It’s almost like prom. It’s the sparkles, and they’ve got nice, fresh shoes, and it’s definitely not muddy wellies right up to your knees. 

And like, my dad very much comes from a blagging festivals culture. He’s never paid to go to a festival in his life. I think through the ‘70s to the ‘90s, that was very normal; a lot of people were like, “Yeah, we’re going to find a way to get to the festival for free, whether we have to scale the building or whatever.” And maybe that’s not so much a thing [in America], of just finding a little way to sneak in and finesse it.

Katy: My friend Fran, two years ago she tried to break into Glastonbury, but she accidentally put her ladder up and jumped into the security camp. 

Lava: That sounds like an episode of Inbetweeners.

Katy: Doesn’t it? She’s still got a fucked up ankle. She’s always got a gammy ankle at Glastonbury. She’s always scaling something. 

Lava: I love finessing it. I’m actually quite sad now that being an artist, there’s always a way to get guest list or a way in. When I was younger, it was the most exciting thing in the world, sneaking in and finding a way to pass security. I feel like it’s a rite of passage, having that experience, and I feel sad for all the young teenage stars that never got to experience being 17 and breaking in. I’m sure Billie Eilish has never had to scale the wall of Glastonbury to get in. 

Katy: Yeah. And even just looking at the younger artists coming up who are maybe 18, 19 — I feel like they have to give so much more of their lives away in terms of having to do so much content. They have so much admin they have to do, as well as writing songs. I feel lucky that I’m just a bit old enough that I’m kind of stuck in my ways, in a positive way, I think.

Lava: I totally know what you mean. I feel somewhere in the middle. I very much remember what it was like before TikTok, before COVID, where it was a tool to use the internet, but there was still so much weight in being in a magazine or doing press. You’d do loads more interviews with, like, a student-run magazine or something like that. Whereas now, I think less young people are going to go down that route because it’s like, “Why am I going to spend hours talking to these random student run magazines or these zines? I can just directly make a video that will go viral.” 

A lot of young artists these days, when they’re promoting their music, they’re literally advertising themselves, and they have to follow a format which is actually not natural for musicians to do. Before it was like, you’d drop a song and maybe you’d put up some posts or share a link on Facebook to your friends. But now they have to follow this format of, “Did I just make the song of the summer?” “POV: You just made the next new Sabrina Carpenter bop, but it’s London vibes!” You know what I mean? Someone else made a TikTok that was like, “Radiohead would have never done that. They would have never been like, ‘Hey, we’re a band from the countryside and we’re making a new song. It’s kind of like Seattle grunge vibes, but UK…’”

Katy: That is such a brilliant sum up. The idea of doing a video and being like, “Hey, I’m Katy!” [Retches.] I just can’t do it. And I’m not judging anyone else for doing it, because the infrastructure is there where they kind of have to do it. And also some of them are up for it. No shade on that. 

But actually, that was one thing I was going to say: I’m about to do my final music video, and I love making music videos. You make your own videos; you’re a director. My label says that 30-second clips of visualizers are better than doing a full video. How does that make you feel?

Lava: I definitely recognize that just through my album campaign. I spent a long time thinking about the visual world of it and building up this world. And it was fine because in the end, I really was just doing it for myself, but I slowly recognized that the 15-second clips that were cut downs of the full video would always get way more views than the actual full thing. It is just the acceptance of reality that most people aren’t clicking to watch the full video. Even if the video does really well on YouTube, the little 15 second clip is what people see first, and more people see that and just stay at that and feel like they’ve watched it. The pace of things has changed.

But at the same time, I strongly believe that humans go through cycles. And whilst we are really into short form content now, because it happened so quickly and it’s still in its inception, I do think the next generation are going to really miss longer content. Because whatever we’re doing, the next generation will want to do the opposite. So I think it will change over time. And I think artists like Raye — she released a seven-minute song the other day. And considering she’s a chart-topping, record-breaking pop artist, it was kind of a “fuck you” to this idea of the three-minute, ready for social media song format. I think more people are going to be like, “Fuck you,” to it and it’s going to shift. 

Katy: I think she’s so good. She’s had such a hard time in the industry and a lot of her experiences I really relate to, and I just feel so happy for her. It does take resilience to keep doing what we do. It’s not easy. And I think when you see someone like her and you can really know that she’s been through the mill, and she is fighting for everyone else… I wish her all the best. I think she’s fantastic.

Lava: Yeah, she’s definitely someone that we all collectively want her to win. I think that’s why it felt like everyone’s win when she collected all of those BRIT Awards. It felt like representation to all the people that had been fucked over by the industry or played or tried to be put in by a box by some annoying label dude that doesn’t know what’s up. To see her come through that and finally get the flowers that she deserved was really sick. I think she is a great example of: if you are so, with pure conviction, believing in your own stuff and don’t give up no matter how much people come for you, eventually it will get recognized at some point. Even if it’s after your lifetime, I do believe that it always does get recognized, when that pure love for what you do is there. Because it ends up moving so many people. And I really feel the same about your music as well, Katy. 

Katy: Right back at you! We’re so lucky to get to do what we get to do, and have each other and this friendship and this community around us where we’re all cheering each other on. And I feel like we’re all being very much true to ourselves. It’s exciting times for both of us. We’re just pootling along and getting to write songs and have fun. [Laughs.] 

Lava: [Laughs.] On that note, should we get some beers now?

Katy: Yeah, we’re going to actually go to the pub in a minute.

Lava: We’re going to go to the pub after this, guys. I wish you could come!