Joanna Sternberg and Josephine Network Love to Rock

Josephine is the singer-songwriter and multi-instrumentalist who fronts the NYC power pop band Josephine Network; Joanna Sternberg is a songwriter and artist born and raised in NYC. Josephine Network’s new EP, Tall Buildings, is out today via House of Feelings, and the band is currently touring Europe with SUO. To celebrate, Josephine and Joanna hopped on the phone to catch up about it all. 
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music 

Josephine: We’re going to do two sets a night [on tour with SUO] so we’ll make double the money.

Joanna Sternberg: That’s so fun. Everyone will get to really stretch out musically and get in different zones.

Josephine: Yeah, totally. And I just love playing bass in Saara [Untracht-Oakner]’s band. I love playing bass to Max [Hersh]’s drums. And then, I just love to rock.

Joanna: I bet you’re amazing at bass. ‘Cus your guitar playing has so much bass in it, like Sister Rosetta Tharpe. You really sound like two musicians at once.

Josephine: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I love on a guitar the open strings. I think that’s where a lot of the magic of guitar is, in the open strings, droning one of the strings.

Joanna: Right, it’s like a banjo. Like a resonator string. 

Josephine: Yeah. And you do that, too!

Joanna: I fake it, Josephine. But you’re doing the real deal. You do the real Keith Richards thing.

Josephine: [Laughs.] Well, I feel like you’re the real deal songwriter.

Joanna: Oh, my god. So, I was listening to your songs and I was crying from one of them. Was it “Valerie”? That one got me. I was listening for a pretty long time… It’s really just so timeless. You’re everything. You can do it all!

Josephine: [Laughs.] Oh, stop.

Joanna: I want to hear how you found everyone in your band.

Josephine: Well, my old band, Velveteen Rabbit, broke up. And then I kind of stumbled into the Windjammer Bar, and Nat Brower was bartending, and he is also this glam rocker who I’ve always admired his stuff from a distance. He was talking about how he recorded this record, and he wants to put a band together, and I just was out of a band so I was like, “Let’s do it.”

Joanna: “I’m single, you’re single, let’s go!”

Josephine: [Laughs.] Exactly. So I joined Brower, and Brower has Max Hershguy playing drums. So that’s how I met those guys. We started playing together, and then Nat introduced me to Josh Wright, who is the bassist of Brower, and he records at this studio in Chelsea called The Relic Room. 

Joanna: I’ve heard of that. 

Josephine: And so Nat arranged this session at his studio. I had some songs, and “Dear Money” was the first one we made together. We basically spent all night making it and watched the sun come up. We knew we had something. Then we went from making this one song, to it became a record over time. So then I put this band together and slowly over time, it just kept growing, because I just couldn’t turn people away.

Joanna: They wanted in and you were like, “Yay!” Because they’re all so great at playing their instruments.

Josephine: Yeah. And it’s like, if you’re a cool person that has a good style, you can be in Josephine Network. 

Joanna: That’s so cool. So when you write the songs, how do you go about showing them to the band?

Josephine: These days, I really like demoing on my iPad. I think it’s so much fun to use GarageBand on an iPad. I’ll tap out a drum beat, a really simple one. But I guess first, I start with a simple voice memo demo. 

Joanna: I’m so honored you’ve sent me some voice memos.

Josephine: Oh, well, of course. And your new song is so good. I feel like your vocals are so warm and full. It’s just great to hear you really shining.

Joanna: Thank you, Josephine. I’m having some issues with — all the songs I’m writing now I feel are bad and I’m scared to send them to anyone. I want to send them to you, but I’ve just been so bad at life lately. I’ve been unable to get out of bed. You know what I mean? You have to be sad to write songs, but if you can’t function in life, it’s hard to write songs. [Laughs.] 

Josephine: That’s true.

Joanna: There’s a level where you gotta be a little bit with it. You can’t just be a mess. But hopefully I’ll get out of it soon.

Josephine: I hope you do, too.

Joanna: Have you ever had messy periods where it’s not been a constant productivity? Because you’re really productive.

Josephine: Well, I think I’m a workaholic. So much of my life is tied to my work, and vice versa.

Joanna: Yeah. And that’s why you love it. But it’s also why it could be a lot. 

Josephine: Right. And I get anxious sometimes about being perceived certain ways. I have my leo sun — I wanna roar. But then I have my cancer moon side… 

Joanna: Oh, my gosh, I have an ascendant in cancer. I have some similar things to you. 

Josephine: Yeah, that’s our emotional side.

Joanna: You go all out with the music videos. The music videos are amazing. You put yourself out there.

Josephine: I’m really excited about the one coming up. I have a single coming out right before I go on tour [“Tall Buildings”], and Dylan Mars Greenberg is the director — she did the “Valerie” video.

Joanna: I was going to say, that has to be Dylan. She’s a genius.

Josephine: She’s a genius and she really brings out the diva in me.

Joanna: Oh, yeah. I always wanted to find a band, but I just get so paranoid and scared. My issues socially prevent me from having one. But I love seeing how it’s just so natural for you and empowers you rather than stresses you. Because it was stressing me — I’m like, Oh, my god, these people are so amazing, but what if I’m not paying them enough? What if they’re bored? Even if they didn’t give any indication of that, I would just start projecting, what if what if what if. And no one wants to deal with that.

Josephine: Well, I understand that. I’m an overthinker myself. 

Joanna: So how do you deal with that?

Josephine: I try and call my friends. I’m a very needy girl. 

Joanna: Call me! [Sings] “Call me, on the line…” I love to be called.

Josephine: OK, I’ll call you then!

Joanna: Yay! I’m too shy to call, but I love to be called.

Josephine: I appreciate that invitation because sometimes I’m like, Oh, Joanna is such a star…

Joanna: What?! OK, there’s a misconception about me. People are like, “You’re busy.” It’s like, no, I’m just on the toilet for hours and then sleeping for 10,000,000,000 hours, and then crawling to a show. So, just so you know, I’m not busy at all. I’m just not functioning. 

Josephine: [Laughs.] Well, I think it’s a little of both.

Joanna: No, if anyone saw, they would be like, “Oh, this is really bad.” Like, if you saw my room — I’ll send you photos. 

Josephine: But my room gets bad, too. It’s hard to do all the things you need to do to be a healthy person and to be an artist. I have to balance teaching guitar—

Joanna: How much do you do that? 

Josephine: It’s my main source of income. I have, like, eight to ten students a week. So I have to balance teaching with rocking, and I have to present myself in different ways. The rock & roll is an outlet for me to really express myself, but then the teaching is also a way for me to really connect with people, and make a little bit of a difference with my own music progress.

Joanna: That’s great. And do you also do songwriting teaching?

Josephine: Songwriting, and vocals too. But the songwriting teaching is really great because that’s when it gets kind of personal. You can’t help it. The songwriter has to really be personal to write something good. And, you know, some people miss that. I feel like some people are too afraid to show themselves in that way. And you’re so fearless—

Joanna: Oh, thank you. 

Josephine: You can really show a lot of sides of yourself, and you’re not afraid to show your flaws. That’s real vulnerability, and that’s why you’re such a great artist.

Joanna: Josephine, I needed to hear that, because I’m in a little bit of a slump. I’m scared to write anything, because I think everything I write sucks.

Josephine: Oh, no, don’t say that to me! Your newest single is some of your best. I think it’s probably your best vocal performance, to my ears. I was like, Wow, Joanna’s a real singer. 

Joanna: I had a whole thing with singing — it was a big drama because people would tell me I couldn’t sing, and I had to get vocal lessons. And then the vocal teacher discovered I was not singing in my “real voice” and all this stuff. What was your singing journey?

Josephine: I started singing, writing, and playing guitar all around the same time. When I was 14, my dad got me a guitar for my birthday, and I started writing soon after I started playing.

Joanna: That makes sense because what you do is just so natural. I feel like it just came to you all in a burst of inspiration.

Josephine: Well, I wrote a lot of bad stuff in those years. 

Joanna: Oh, I have so much bad stuff hiding, and I don’t want to show anyone. But I don’t know how to differentiate the good from the bad. That’s the problem!

Josephine: OK, so, here’s my writer’s block thing—

Joanna: Please tell me.

Josephine: I’ll have a burst of inspiration and write a verse and a chorus, and I’ll be like, Oh my god, this is so sick. And then that second verse is where they start to dry up, and the divine spark disappears and I have to use my cerebral brain to make up for it. That second verse has to live up to the first verse and that chorus, and in some cases it has to be better and expand and give even more story or whatever it is. And I often struggle with one line in the second verse.

Joanna: Me too. I get stumped and then I give up.

Josephine: Me too! And then I just put it away for months. 

Joanna: Yeah. The thought of it annoys me, because I feel like I got so excited and then it got ruined or something.

Josephine: Yeah. But then what’s cool is you can come back months later and be like, Oh, I know what I was saying. And then you have a different angle with it.

Joanna: That should be the point of this. We have to spread that message, because we can’t be the only ones dealing with that drama of the voice memo.

Josephine: Yeah. There’s just so many voice memos…

Joanna: So many.

Josephine: You could always go back to something you were struggling with, and maybe your spark that day would be writing the second verse to something that you started, like, seven months ago.

Joanna: Sure. It’s just so hard to remember that a melody I wrote ten years ago is still me, and I could make use of it now because I haven’t used it yet.

Josephine: I know. That’s a whole thing — what is me? Because it’s always changing. Also with songwriting, so much of it is writing stuff and rejecting it and being like, No, that’s not me. No, that’s not me. Then you peel all that away and then finally, 20 years in, you’re like, OK, now this is me. 

Joanna: Right. I think the real thing that I realized is, the only thing that isn’t me anymore is I stopped writing love songs. I wrote too many of them, and now it just makes me cringe to think about doing. So that’s the only thing that feels not me. But the melodies and anything else feel like it’s me. But the problem is I just don’t have the — it’s not confidence I had before, but it was kind of a recklessness of, I don’t care what people think of this and I’m just gonna put it out. I don’t have that anymore. Now it’s like an imposter syndrome of, I lost my ability, my brain is broken, type thing.

Josephine: Well, that comes in waves, I think. You’ll have that, and then one day something crazy will happen to you. Because I also think that sometimes we have to have wild shit happen to us in order to get the spark back.

Joanna: That’s true. But what about when you get burnt out? That’s the real thing I’m dealing with. Because when too many wild things happen, you just get burnt out.

Josephine: That’s true. Then I guess you just have to rest.

Joanna: But how long? I’m resting, but I just want to get back to how I was! I feel like I’m in hibernation… But I’ll work my way up to it, because when I get back from the tour, I want to really focus on finishing all these songs that I’ve started.

Josephine: Aw, well, I feel like going on tour will help you finish the songs.

Joanna: You mentioned wanting to discuss role models.

Josephine: Yes! Who are some of yours?

Joanna: Well, my role model really was always my dad, because I was just copying him. I wanted to be just like him. So everything he liked — he raised me on the Beatles as if it was the Torah. So it was basically the Beatles, the Beatles, the Beatles, and luckily I was obsessed with the Beatles. He plays piano and guitar. He taught himself both instruments and double bass, so I learned all those instruments too. I would copy the way he would play pretty much everything. I would just steal it. But I wouldn’t want to play with him because I was too embarrassed that he would call me out as a poser. It was kind of funny. [Laughs.] Now it’s cute to talk about.

Josephine: That’s amazing. And very similar to me, where my dad has been a huge influence on me. My dad got me my first guitar and taught me the A chord and E minor, and started singing “Shout” by the Isley Brothers. 

Joanna: Oh, my gosh, amazing. That is such a good song to teach.

Josephine: Yeah, I was instantly hooked after that.

Joanna: You’re from New York City?

Josephine: I was raised by city people, but I am a Westchester girl.

Joanna: So your parents are from New York City. Whereabouts?

Josephine: They’re from the Bronx. And you actually grew up in the city.

Joanna: Yeah, I did. But Westchester, I feel like is more peaceful. The city is an insane place for a kid to be in. In public school — I can’t believe it was legal, what went on. We had no supervision and we were running rampant. We took over the blocks at lunchtime. It was horrible, though, because everybody was so mean. But it’s still a good memory because that’s where I got really obsessed with music. Did you find you were one of the only people who was interested in music at your school? Or did you have a community?

Josephine: There were definitely music people. I definitely was one of the guitar people. But I felt like the punks in my town were very insular, and I wasn’t really a part of that. I felt like they saw me as soft.

Joanna: Or a threat.

Josephine: I don’t know…

Joanna: You weren’t conforming. You weren’t doing what you were supposed to do, in their eyes.

Josephine: I didn’t wear the right patches on my jacket or whatever.

Joanna: Exactly. Dress code. It’s like Regina George and the Plastics — pink on Fridays, sweatpants once a week.

Josephine: [Laughs.] The punks are very much a mirror of that.

Joanna: No shade, but they really do care about those clothes. Remember that store Trash & Vaudeville? 

Josephine: Yes. 

Joanna: Everyone would go there, and it would just remind me of the Cheetah Girls, because they’d wear these cheetah prints, zebra prints. [Laughs.] But sorry, I interrupted. You were just telling me more about your role models.

Josephine: Oh, yeah. Well, definitely my dad, and my mom too. Both of my parents are teachers now, and I’m a guitar teacher, so I feel like I’m a natural teacher because of that. Also, my grandma was a really amazing oil pastel painter and would paint really beautiful fruit bowls and portraits of people. She had this very bubbly personality, very yenta vibes, but her art was so moody and beautiful. I like that mix where someone’s personality, maybe you don’t expect.

Joanna: Right. I think you have a bit of that, because you’re very bubbly too. But then the songs can be any mix of emotion, which is great.

Josephine: And my guitar playing is very fierce.

Joanna: Oh, yeah. That’s what I’m talking about, really.

Josephine: I have a very strong attack. And speaking of role models, I was obsessed with the White Stripes in high school. They were definitely my favorite band from 10th grade, 11th, 12th. I was obsessed with them, and the way Jack plays guitar is so ferocious. To play a very simple A chord and just bash it  — I love that. And the White Stripes influenced me to look at other bands and other artists too. I got into a lot of Detroit rock bands, like the Gories and the Dirtbombs. And also things like old Delta blues, because Jack would wear, like, a Blind Willie McTell t-shirt.

Joanna: That’s great. I love that he showed that was the most important thing, because it is. 

Josephine: Yeah, it is the most important. It always will come back to the blues. I learned all about that Delta blues stuff from that, and Blind Willie McTell was fucking amazing. 

Joanna: Me too. Love, love, love. 

Josephine: Who are some of your favorite artists?

Joanna: Blind Willie McTell, obviously — I’ve listened to thousands of hours of him. When I was in middle school, there was this documentary called John Lennon’s Jukebox, and it was John Lennon’s jukebox of songs he loved that he put on it, and I love that. So I listened to all those songs. The Rolling Stones did a thing for Starbucks, so I had a free CD where the Rolling Stones picked a jukebox album of their favorite songs. That was really fun. I’ve always been really obsessed with Little Richard. I really think they should make a Little Richard biopic. How come there’s two movies now with Elvis? Who cares? Elvis is not important compared to Little Richard.

Josephine: Yeah, Little Richard is way cooler, way more important. That first album, Here’s Little Richard, is one of the best debut albums ever.

Joanna: Exactly.

Josephine: Just the king and queen of rock & roll. Are you a Carole King fan? 

Joanna: I love her. 

Josephine: I love her so much. When I hear your music, I hear Carole King. 

Joanna: Thank you!

Josephine: I feel like you really carry the torch.

Joanna: That’s so nice. I always would watch Really Rosie. It’s a cartoon musical of Maurice Sendak drawings and stories and Carole King doing all the voices and songs. I even listen to it now. All the songs are incredible.

Josephine: I gotta see it. Do you know the song, “It’s Going to Take Some Time”?

Joanna: Oh, my gosh, yes.

Josephine: That song is so good. That’s the song I’ve come to a lot the past couple of years for me. She’s so comforting, and that song is so comforting.

Joanna: She’s the most therapeutic songwriter. If there was a dream therapist, it’s her. It’s therapy music. It’s like a medicine.

Josephine: It is. And I love how it’s very simple to understand, but just so well stated.

Joanna: I love “Crying in the Rain.” That’s such a great song.

Josephine: I love “Pleasant Valley Sunday,” the Monkees song she wrote. There’s some really cool key changes in that song. If you ever sit down to learn it, it’s really interesting the way it changes keys a couple different times, and you don’t really hear it.

Joanna: Yeah, there’s so many subtle things she does with harmony, and it’s still catchy and accessible to everyone musically. But musicians can be like, “Oh, my god, that chord change, what?!” So what’s coming up soon? What’s the next thing for Josephine Network?

Josephine: Well, the next thing is this single video that I’m putting out. I made this song called “Tall Buildings,” and it’s kind of a psychedelic rock song. I made it with my friend Olive [Faber], who plays drums in Sunflower Bean. She also fronts really cool band called Stars Revenge and she is a great engineer as well. So we recorded this track at her home studio, and she played drums and I played guitar, bass, and sang. I really liked working in the studio with just a drummer.

Joanna: I play drums! If I got good enough, we could do a thing.

Josephine: Oh, my gosh, that would be so fun. 

Joanna: We would become the new White Stripes!

Josephine: Oh, my god. We really would!

Joanna: We have to try. There’s a void. 

Josephine: Totally. I feel like people with guitars are afraid to just rock hard.

Joanna: Yeah, I think everyone’s getting a little bit shy. Including me! I think I need an alter ego, because I have to snap out of it. 

Josephine: Well, I really enjoyed talking to you. I’m glad we got to talk about music, because I really love your music.

Joanna: I love your music

Josephine: And I love you!

Joanna: I love you! We have to hang out and play music together as soon as possible. Please send me songs, and I’ll try to work on a song to send you.

Josephine: OK, cool. And then our White Stripes band will be ever closer to reality.

(Photo Credit: left, Loren Lenox)