Sophia Stel writes songs that feel like a dream, a waking memory that grows more real the longer you sit with it. Her latest EP, Object Permanence, is out now.
Sophia Stel is a songwriter and electronic artist based in Vancouver; Cecile Believe is an LA-based electronic artist and vocalist (whose voice you may recognize from tracks like SOPHIE’s “Faceshopping,” among many others). Both artists just released EPs — Object Permanence and Tender the Spark, respectively — so to celebrate, they hopped on a Zoom call to catch up about it all.
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music
Sophia Stel: We both grew up in Victoria, right?
Cecile Believe: Yeah.
Sophia: But we never met there.
Cecile: I probably left before you were doing music.
Sophia: When did you leave Victoria?
Cecile: I left in 2006, I wanna say?
Sophia: Yeah, I was not doing much in 2006.
Cecile: Makes sense. [Laughs.] I’m aging myself, but whatever.
Sophia: Well, I was just listening to your EP — I love it.
Cecile: Thank you. How’s it been feeling for you?
Sophia: Really good. I love “Red Brick.” I think it’s beautiful. I’ve probably listened to it a few hundred times.
Cecile: [Laughs.] I actually meant how has your release been feeling.
Sophia: Oh! [Laughs.] Well, first of all, it feels like it was a long time coming. Because I meant to release it last fall, and then some other things got in the way, so I felt very ready for it to come out. But then I also just have had a really interesting past few months — I went through a breakup right when things were starting to move, and every day is just totally different. But it’s exciting and it feels good to be sharing stuff during this time.
Cecile: Yeah, that’s a lot. I mean, it is such an emotional and demanding [process], making all the additional besides-the-music parts, it must have been a lot.
Sophia: Yeah. How do you deal with making all of the videos, or even just [social media] content? Do you do a lot of that yourself?
Cecile: For content, I’m making it basically all myself. One of the videos I did with friends, and that was a really fun experience [“Ponytail”]. The other video [“Blink Twice”] I did on more of a traditional video shoot set up — which it’s been a long time since I’ve done a bigger video shoot. And I love the result, but it was a lot. Whenever you’re doing these things and it’s still kind of DIY, because it has to be because of money, there’s a certain temperature. It’s hotter, for sure.
Sophia: Definitely. It’s interesting too — you’ve obviously done other more high production videos before, but there’s a little bit of financial pressure, too, to get it done and within a certain amount of time.
Cecile: Definitely. And I think that there’s these professional hats that we all put on, and when you’re wearing your professional hat, you charge professional prices and you do what professionals do. And a lot of people come from a place of doing things on an amateur level, so they have the experience of DIY, but then they have their professional hats on and it’s like, “OK, this is a proper music video. We’re hiring a gaffer and a studio and…” Things take on this different characteristic of intensity. And of course the results are different between that and an iPhone video — which I also did an iPhone video. But especially in a city like LA, where I live, things can get expensive quickly. [Laughs.]
Sophia: Yeah, I bet. Do you feel like you generally prefer the way that more DIY videos come out? Or more properly produced? Like, as far as how you feel about your own image, or how you feel it serves the song.
Cecile: I think a DIY video can look extremely high budget. And then also, DIY becomes an aesthetic too. So you can be DIY in your process and produce something that could rival high budget things, and then there’s also this choice you can make of saying, “This is shot on an iPhone,” and there’s a certain grace that’s given with that. But there’s also a certain pigeonholing that happens. I think I would lean toward something that feels more produced, but I appreciate a lot of DIY stuff, and I, of course, make it. And we’re all kind of secretly making it, even if it doesn’t look that way.
Sophia: Yeah. A lot of DIY stuff does look totally high budget now, just with the fact that you can shoot something on an iPhone that looks crazy.
Cecile: Yeah, and you can edit it in Premiere and trick it out and make it really have an identity. I think that’s maybe the same with music, too.
Sophia: Totally.
Cecile: Technology has afforded people to be able to make really technically high-def sounding stuff from their own laptops. How do you feel about that idea? Have you done a lot of higher production shoots?
Sophia: I have done one [for “The Bus”] because I got a government grant a couple of years ago. It was a cool experience, but I kind of was like, I wish I had gotten the money to make the songs. [Laughs.] Because I got a pretty good chunk of money to make a proper video, but all the songs were just made in my apartment in between work and stuff. But it was exciting to have that opportunity and cool to learn from it. But all of my videos I’ve done recently, my best friend just shoots them, and my friends are in them or I’m in them, and then I edit it. I really like that process. It’s really nice for me to just work with my best friend, and I’m really comfortable being in front of the camera with him. I want to [do it] ideally with more budget, so we can have more interesting concepts, but our flow right now is really good. I hope we get to do it for a long time.
Cecile: Yeah. And I mean, music videos can be treated in a lot of different ways. They can be mini films or they can be performance videos, or they can be just a rhythmic addition to the music. I think there’s a lot of power in how comfortable you feel in front of the camera — the music video is not necessarily about the budget, it’s about the projection of the idea of the song, in a way. And that’s usually the artist projecting themselves in the most authentic, comfortable capacity. So, yeah, the DIY thing — it’s dreamy to work with your friends.
Sophia: That’s all I want. Do you get to work with your friends a lot?
Cecile: Yeah, mostly I’ve done that. This time, I reached out to [Richie Talboy] — he’s a friend now, but we didn’t really know each other as well — for the album artwork. And that was really great. I loved working with somebody who does his thing, and then seeing my thing through his lens was really interesting and cool. I liked that feeling of collaboration.
Sophia: It’s kind of a new thing for me, honestly, thinking about the visual side of things. Now I’m thinking about it constantly, even when I’m making songs. I think that is really a cool thing to add into the process, just seeing things around and being like, “Oh, this is the visual aspect of the song.” Like walking around and seeing different colors or different things, and starting to take notes about it so that when I make the videos it really feels right. That’s a new thing for me, so I’m excited about it.
Cecile: Yeah. I was sitting with the editor while we edited the video for “Blink Twice,” and I learned so much that way. I think it helped me actually open my mind’s eye to just the moving visual, because I feel as though I’m the type of person that needs to know how something is made to understand it. So that’s been really cool, just getting more concrete about how videos are made, and how that’s going to tie into the idea that might come up when I’m making the music.
When you release music, are making new stuff right away?
Sophia: Definitely. I mean, for this project, because it’s been done for a couple of years, when I’ve been actually releasing it these past few months, I feel like I’ve been making tons of music. Because I’m excited that it’s out there and I’m excited that people are hearing the music, and then I’m excited to show them what’s next. So right now I feel quite a bit inspired by releasing it.
Cecile: I’m going through a similar thing, where basically all the songs have been written for a year. Some of them were started in 2021, even, so it’s been a few years. But also, there’s something about releasing that is an instigator for new ideas for me and feeling like I have this open area in my psyche to explore the next thing. When there’s an empty space, there’s sort of a vacuum effect, I find, where it needs to be filled.
Sophia: Absolutely.
Cecile: I feel a sense of urgency, often, around releases. Which is a cool momentum to have, if you have time to coattail it.
Sophia: Yeah, I hadn’t thought about that vacuum effect. I was wondering why I was feeling that way — because I definitely feel that need, in a really positive way, to kind of fill that space. I think it’s because it was this whole world with the visuals and the cover art, with the project that’s coming out now, just trying to create it all and live in that and make it all make sense for me for so long. Now I’m like, Oh, I need something new that’s just mine. It’s been exciting to be making the next project, because it’s just mine right now completely. I really like when I’m just making songs and I haven’t even showed anybody, and I have a little playlist going and it’s just a secret. That’s the stage I’m at right now.
Cecile: I feel really good when things are in that potential stage as well. It’s a really free feeling, before things have become concrete and they’re still sort of in a floaty state, and then you get little pieces that solidify and then you start connecting them together. But even then, it’s so lovely before you share it or you say, “This is done, and now I’m looking for a release partner,” I’m sharing it with people to get their feedback. It’s really nice before that stage because it’s just a pure experience.
Sophia: Totally. It’s hard for me to stop writing songs, sometimes. To a fault, I’ll just keep adding things, like another outro or something. I’ve kind of tried to rein in a little bit in some ways, because I think sometimes I’ll be overcooking stuff. But before I’ve showed it to anybody, I’m like, I can still do it. I can still add whatever I want. And not that I can’t keep doing that, but it’s like, nobody else has had time to get attached to any version of the song. I really care about feedback from my friends, and like if they start to be like, “Oh, but I loved that and then you took it out…” I think it’s important to have other people’s feedback, obviously, but the little private stage is nice.
Cecile: I’m definitely a tinkerer as well, and I’m trying to move past that. But it almost feels like designing a chair or something — you have to really think about the design, and then you take the time to put it together, and maybe you come up with problems… There’s a sort of satisfaction of being like, I tried all the options and this is the one. I think that there’s other artists who are much more free about, the thing that comes out first is good enough or maybe even better than anything that could proceed it. That’s an interesting headspace that I don’t always feel like I can really relate to, but would like to try to practice more. It doesn’t have to be worked really hard to be done.
Sophia: Yeah, I feel that too. I’m really trying to do that for this next project. As much as I’m saying I like to continue to add things, I’ve really simplified for what I’m doing now. I’m also making it more to play live, so I’m really limiting the parts. Usually when I’m producing, I’ll have, like, 60 tracks for no reason — and you’re not even hearing half of the stuff. I think this is just me trying to learn music, too. [Laughs.] But now I’ll have four tracks, but I really want to get as much as possible out of each sound. Or even for my top line, like my vocals, really like making sure that they could stand alone with one of the sounds and the song would still feel good. And then from there, going crazy if I want to. That’s been an interesting process.
Cecile: Yeah, for sure. I’m building a live set right now and realizing you could just have a kick drum for quite a while. You could keep going for 20 seconds.
Sophia: What’s your live set up?
Cecile: It’s kind of basic. I’m also having to do some touring on my own, just because of budget. So it’s going to be a computer and visuals. I’ve been researching scrolling LED screens.
Sophia: Woah.
Cecile: I want to have a text element that’s kind of unrelated to the lyrics or the song titles or anything. Maybe there’ll be some of that. So I’ve been thinking about ways of infiltrating the show with non-sequitur text. That sounds fun to me.
Sophia: That’s cool. I’m figuring it out as well, and I have to do most of my shows solo too. But it’s interesting to hear about the visual part of it — that is such a big thing that I haven’t really thought about enough. But it’s a really good way to add something when it’s just you and a computer.
Cecile: Yeah. I think a lot of people use a very built-up visual, especially with projections, that is really leaned on now. And I’m not at all negging on it, because it’s probably what I’ll be doing too. But there’s still a lot of power in a really strong performance.
