Anna McClellan and Oh, Rose Resolve Some (Inner) Conflict

Anna McClellan is a singer-songwriter from Omaha, NE; Olivia Rose fronts the Olympia, WA-based band Oh, Rose. Both just put out new records —  Electric Bouquet and Dorothy, respectively — so to celebrate, the two got on a call to catch up about the making of them, and more. 
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music

Anna McClellan: We both just put out records, so I was curious: do you like doing that?

Olivia Rose: Putting out records?

Anna: Yeah. I like it, but I feel like there’s a heaviness to it. It’s not a casual thing.

Olivia: What’s your heavy?

Anna: It just means a lot to me, and there’s an inherent judging that happens about things that are very personal. I think you and I both write songs that are very personal and embodiments of ourselves in ways that it’s heavy to put yourself out there like that.

Olivia: Definitely. How do you feel about the expectation to tour? Do you feel that pressure? 

Anna: Yeah, I do. I feel like there is an expectation when you put out a record, especially if someone else puts it out for you, that you would support it. But I’m excited to go on tour for this. Because the thing about putting out a record is you don’t get that interaction or that direct feedback. So what I like about doing the shows is you’re like, OK, I’m seeing people respond to this in real time, and that can be kind of grounding. Because otherwise it’s all just on the internet. But you guys just did a bunch of touring right with Future Islands.

Olivia: Yeah. And I think the interesting thing that I’m kind of saddled with is we released the album, we did the tour — it wasn’t our tour, per se, we were opening for someone else — but it feels really finished. It feels really done.

Anna: Yeah, right. You did the things, you checked the boxes. And now what happens?

Olivia: Yeah, I don’t know. I think that’s a question that I have for you and for myself. We’re both indie artists and we’ve been doing this for so long — what are the boxes that we need to check? Or do we just continue to create and make our own boxes?

Anna: I think that’s a really good question, and sort of brings up DIY-versus-industry. Like, are you trying to get into the industry and play that game? Does that matter to you? Or is it more just about the community, so to speak?

Olivia: Well, what do you think? Where are you at?

Anna: I don’t know. I go back and forth. I mean, I’m not turning down offers from booking agents. It’s all DIY by circumstance. But I’m not upset about that. I’m getting ready to book this tour and mapping out the whole country in legs, but it’s a lot of work. But it’s also so much more special this way. And the shows become about more than just music and about more than just a guarantee. They’re about building something meaningful. So I think that’s kind of my “why” and following a feeling of being like, Does this still feel exciting to me? Do I feel like I’m learning new things about myself and about other people? 

Olivia: I don’t really feel that way from DIY touring.

Anna: Really? So, there you go. It feels just like work. 

Olivia: Correct. 

Anna: And work that you’re not really getting paid for. [Laughs.] 

Olivia: Yeah. It feels exhausting. It feels distracting from the music. And I love playing music in front of people and having that experience. But I think it’s felt exhausting for a long time.I feel that I have done my due diligence. And I think that’s also because I’m very lucky to be opening for bands; it feels like when I’m on stage and doing this, it’s like, Oh, this is this capstone, this is great and this is amazing. But I don’t want to take it much farther than where it’s at. 

Anna: In terms of live performance?

Olivia: Yeah.

Anna: Seeing videos of you guys performing in these big audiences, do you get something out of that more so than playing in a shitty bar?

Olivia: I don’t really know how to explain it. I love music for the community that it gives me, and the relationships and the people that it brings into my life. When that comes to strangers and random people… sure. We can have a time. But I think it’s more of the through line that music provides to my life. And I think I’m learning that it doesn’t really have too much to do with performing. Or it has everything to do with performing, but the industry aspects of it have nothing to do with my life when it comes to, you release an album, you tour, you do this — that doesn’t mean anything to me.

Anna: It’s not a natural process.

Olivia: It just doesn’t feel real to me. But I also really respect that. I think I just have other things that I want to do with my life.

Anna: That makes sense. You’ve been doing it for a long time. 

Olivia: Yeah. I think with my music, a lot of it is focused on anger and conflict. And I have a career in conflict resolution now that’s incredibly fulfilling. So I have this whole other piece and this identity that is being actualized. And then there’s music that also I’m so lucky to have being actualized, but I don’t really know how to make sense of all of it.

Anna: Yeah, they’re almost at odds.

Olivia: Yeah, definitely. Because it’s like, OK, cool, you can use paid time off to go on tour. But why would I do that? 

Anna: Yeah, I wanna go on vacation. [Laughs.] But more so in terms of content or theme, you said that your songs often have to do with conflict or anger. And now you’re sort of working through that need to write about that?

Olivia: Yeah, I think it’s gone. So now it’s like, I wanna write songs about partnership. I think fear will always be there in the songs. But I want to write about partnership, I want to write about stability.

Anna: Well, we need songs that talk about that stuff.

Olivia: With your songs about friendship and just this recognition about these very — they’re not simple, but they’re very stable things in life, and that’s what I admire about your songwriting, that it can so pointedly speak about things that are so crucial to the infrastructure of a life and a well-being.

Anna: Thank you. That’s interesting because I feel so unstable right now, and most of the time. [Laughs.] 

Olivia: Where is the instability coming from?

Anna: I mean, just my circumstances. I’m kind of floating right now. I’m in Austin, but mostly live in LA. I had just moved there, and then came to Austin to do this TV job that was months long. So now I’ve actually been in Austin as long as I was in LA. And relationships and stuff get confusing…

Olivia: In love, I’ve been grounding down in stability, like hard core. I just got married.

Anna: I know.

Olivia: I have a job that is really fulfilling and interesting to me, and drives me cuckoo bananas crazy, but I care about it. And I’ve been in Olympia for 12 years — I haven’t moved. So my question is, how do you navigate creating art with the perception of what your art should or could be?

Anna: I think I’m trying to figure that out right now. Because I’ve been working in TV really full on, but I finished last week, and now I’m faced with all of this unstructured time for myself, with the idea that I will make something out of it, write something—

Olivia: Whose idea is that?

Anna: Mine. That’s what I want to do, you know? I want to write stuff. But the potential is daunting.

Olivia: How do you get grounded in your potential?

Anna: I think sitting in front of the piano is a nice way. I need to be alone — that’s pretty important for me just to feel unselfconscious around whatever is going to come up. So it kind of takes days of being in it, I think, to get somewhere. I’m always trying to rush, but it can’t be. Are you writing right now?

Olivia: No, not at all. I don’t have time for that shit. I was looking at voice memos and I think the last one was in, like, June.

Anna: Wow. That is a long time. 

Olivia: Yeah. I think I need a pause. I have plenty of songs. I can’t wait to record the songs that I have leading up to now.

Anna: Yeah. You’re an amazing performer, so I’m so surprised to hear you say that you don’t get much out of it. 

Olivia: I mean, I get everything out of it. It’s my entire life, it’s everything. But it’s not anything like, I want to do this over and over again. It takes a lot. And I think that’s something that I see in your music, too. You’re writing about things and singing in ways that it’s not really for the audience. When I listen to your music, I don’t think it’s for the audience, I think it’s for you.

Anna: For sure. I mean, I feel like more and more, I’m living it. I can’t really separate my life from the songs. I’m really in it, and it makes me feel a little crazy.

Olivia: [Laughs.] It’s weird! But like, I’ve been doing this, and we’re not going to stop doing this, you know?

Anna: I think that’s my only expectation: just keep filtering everything out the way that only you can.

Olivia: Yeah. Just keep living.

Anna: Exactly. Because I hear you saying, “I don’t know if I want to keep touring.” But I don’t think you could ever stop writing songs.

Olivia: I never will. That’s become incredibly clear to me. Everything else is just a little bit of confusion and noise.

Anna: Absolutely. 

Olivia: And I have to decipher that as a leader in my art.

Anna: Well said. 

Olivia: Music is great. I love writing songs, I love singing, I love playing music, and it’s in my soul and I will do it ‘til the day that I die. But that is not my whole life. At all. And I think that I did that through strategy and survival.

Anna: Hell yeah. Like, this can’t be my whole life. 

Olivia: Yeah, it literally cannot be, and it will never be. And I think that’s what makes it so special. It is this piece of my life that is so special, but it’s not my whole life. And that is by design.

Anna: Yeah. Because it’s like something you can access when you need to, but then you also have a very full life. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Olivia: No, and I think that is the biggest lie that we’ve been told — like if we don’t put all of ourselves into music, then we didn’t do it. I think that is such bullshit. I know it’s not true. I am incredibly successful with Oh, Rose, and it’s only become more and more successful the more that I have invested into other aspects of my life. I’m going to do big things. We’re doing everything. We’re writing more albums. We’re getting our master’s degree. I was even thinking today I was like, Oh damn, PhD? We can fucking do everything. I am multifaceted. I think where I am so frustrated with the music industry and the demands is that you can’t do all that. Also, shout out to all you industry people, if you’re reading this: The more your artists create and release music, the more streaming royalties they are going to get. So you would ideally like them to be happy and creating instead of, like, going on touring cycles that stress them out and make them no money at all. You should essentially just be boosting them up to create the most music that is possible.

Anna: I know, that ends up getting thrown by the wayside.

Olivia: Because they’re like, “Oh, you released an album, you need to go tour for a year.”

Anna: “And post!”

Olivia: But, no, actually. You should be creating music over and over all the time. That’s the age that we’re living in. Like, let’s just generate music all the time.

Anna: Totally. I mean, I went to electrician school for similar reasons — I just want other things going on. And even for my art, I want my brain to have stimulation in other ways, to get a full picture of how people live and how the infrastructure works. I think it’s really possible to get caught up in your own mind and go on this loop around art and music, and stop having anything to write about. And that’s what I don’t want to have happen.

Olivia: Yeah. Honestly, if I stop writing then like, great. Bye. [Laughs.] 

Anna: [Laughs.] We’re very different about this stuff, but I get what you’re saying.

Olivia: If I never wrote again in my life, I hope that the infrastructure of my life that I have created outside of that can fulfill me. And that’s my number one thing. Because I can’t have my identity wrapped up in that fucking bullshit.

Anna: Yeah, that is not healthy for you.

Olivia: Not at all.

Anna: I’m glad that you’ve figured that out.

Olivia: It was great to talk to you. I appreciate you and respect you so much as an artist, and your new album has really been there for me in ways that I can’t really explain. So keep doing it.

Anna: It’s very mutual.